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Exclude Final Year Option

flinorindee
Wed, 09 Sep 2020 10:43:23 GMT

Encourage a check box to exclude the final year of arbitrary eras. For example, the Hadean Era – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadean – is conventionally listed as lasting from 4.6 billion years ago to 4 billion years ago. The resulting duration shows up in the timeline as: *Hadean Era [600000001 years]* Six-hundred million, while note EASY to recall, is somewhat easier than six-hundred million and one. What with history having so many round dates like that, especially in pre-history, it would be helpful if we could have an offset for this. Another example: Mycenaean Greece https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycenaean_Greece Mycenaean Greece (or the Mycenaean civilization) was the last phase of the Bronze Age in Ancient Greece, spanning the period from approximately 1600–1100 BC. To me this is always…*500* years. Many, many dates in pre-history are like that. And, kind of how I remember them: they seem to store in memory as round numbers. It would be nice to not have to mentally edit out that extra year each time. Sincerely, Flin [2020-09-08_21-15-47-647](//muut.com/u/aeontimeline/s1/:aeontimeline:aIOl:20200908_211547647.png.jpg) [2020-09-09_18-39-51-810](//muut.com/u/aeontimeline/s2/:aeontimeline:TSmN:20200909_183951810.png.jpg)

aeonjess
Tue, 15 Sep 2020 00:43:29 GMT

Hi Flin, Thanks for your suggestion, it isn't something we have planned to do in the near future, however we will keep it under consideration in the long term. Jess

flinorindee
Tue, 29 Sep 2020 15:11:10 GMT

Hi Jess, With respect, this actually seems like a bug more than a wish. Here's my thinking. If I use the conventional dates of an Era for my students, Mycenean Greece 1600 BC to 1100 BC, then the timeline will show that the era was *501* years long. Now, if I ask my students, "How long was the age of Mycenaean Greece?" They will need to learn that it is...how long? Alternatively, I can add in the dates as 1600 BC to 1101 BC. That DOES display as a duration of 500 years. But, if the test question is written, "When did the age of Mycenean Greece end?" then the only way to learn from the timeline is...to learn the wrong date of 1101 BC? Add this to the challenge of *every* wide era getting the extra year added on, BC or AD. And, then, finally, that those eras *which CROSS* the year zero do NOT experience this problem - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Iron_Age 800 BC to 100 Ad shows as...900 years. Is it true that the era of Mycenean Greece is considered 501 years long? Is it true that the Early Modern Era in Europe is 301 years long? Did the Hittite Empire last *281* years? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_empires And, how can it be true that the Iron Age in Britain lasts 900 years ONLY...? Somehow, that seems like it should be classified as a bug, more than a wish. Less a suggestion, more an issue. Sincerely, Flin [2020-09-29_21-55-09-168](//muut.com/u/aeontimeline/s1/:aeontimeline:duSN:20200929_215509168.png.jpg) [2020-09-29_21-54-25-105](//muut.com/u/aeontimeline/s1/:aeontimeline:cCi9:20200929_215425105.png.jpg) [2020-09-29_23-05-29-920](//muut.com/u/aeontimeline/s2/:aeontimeline:fO2k:20200929_230529920.png.jpg) [2020-09-29_23-03-25-272](//muut.com/u/aeontimeline/s1/:aeontimeline:YUFu:20200929_230325272.png.jpg)

aeonjess
Tue, 06 Oct 2020 04:35:20 GMT

Hi Flin, The reason that the event with dates 1600 BC to 1100 BC is given as 501 years is because Aeon Timeline defaults to using inclusive end dates. To give a smaller example, if you had the time period 1 AD - 2 AD, using inclusive end dates means that this is 2 years (1 AD and 2 AD). If you are using exclusive dates, then then period is just one year (1 AD). You can read more about this decision and how it works in our support pages here: https://help.aeontimeline.com/article/45-representing-dates-and-durations (under the heading "representing end dates and midnight") Jess

flinorindee
Wed, 07 Oct 2020 03:47:39 GMT

Hi Jess, I'm confused. You wrote: *...defaults to using inclusive end dates. To give a smaller example, if you had the time period 1 AD – 2 AD, using inclusive end dates means that this is 2 years (1 AD and 2 AD). If you are using exclusive dates, then then period is just one year (1 AD).* It sounds like you're saying there is an inclusive setting somewhere, and we can switch that to on or off? Am I right? If so, where is that? Alternatively, if not, how can I get era dates to show as they are normally understood? Is what you're suggesting that the *only* way to do this is to enter: Early Modern Europe *1500 ~ 1800* 1 January 1500 31 December 1799 Which, if so, is what I was driving at. Where ages are "taught" / understood / generally spoken about in terms of round numbers, is there any way to let this be displayed throughout the timeline in that same way? Sincerely, Flin [2020-10-07_11-45-24-725](//muut.com/u/aeontimeline/s1/:aeontimeline:9p0d:20201007_114524725.png.jpg)

aeonjess
Thu, 08 Oct 2020 05:05:50 GMT

Hi Flin, Sorry about the ambiguity, I shoudn't have used the word "default" as it does imply a setting you can turn on/off. Aeon Timeline just uses the inclusive dates. Yes, the only way to get the duration that you are wanting would be to increase the precision of the dates (eg. using 1 Jan 1500 - 31 Dec 1799 for 1500-1800) as you have stated. Jess

flinorindee
Sat, 24 Oct 2020 14:07:33 GMT

Hi Jess, That’s why I think this should be seen as a bug. Let me explain my thinking, and offer a possible solution. THE GILDED AGE IN THE USA Now, roughly one can use a lot of START dates for The Gilded Age, but most folks will agree that its ends at 1900. Now! If you’re like most history students - and even folks just born in the last century - there’s a kind of mnemonic wholeness to that date. There it is: *1900! The TWENTIETH CENTURY!!* Right now, the system is DESIGNED to show this date as Dec. 31st, 1899 And, what do we tell our students, or ourselves, using the timeline? “Just remember - understand that the Gilded Age didn’t actually end on New Year’s Eve of 1899. We think of it as actually beginning in…” This is the KEY point. To have TWO locations - the Inspector and the Timeline itself - display information that we mostly need to forget / ignore as the only means of getting a SINGLE place to display the correct Duration number is suboptimal. That’s TWO instances of an incorrect date just to get the correct Duration. Zero instances of the common ly understood ending date. You won’t see the year 1900 in the text of your event. A common shorthand in logic is that you can’t have true outcomes from false statements. For a timeline there’s not a lot of room for a DISPLAYED incorrect date. Additionally, as I illustrated before, it wouldn’t be possible to ever ask a student “What year did the Gilded Age end?” where the commonly accepted year is 1900, but the timeline only ever shows 1899, New Year’s Eve. Put another way: what If I was writing a history of the Bahamas with software that displayed the national flag on every page. Now, imagine that this same software I was using INSISTED on rendering the flag display as alphabetically…minus one. Such that, to get the flag of the Bahamas on every page, I need to use the word “Azerbaijan” everywhere in the text of the article. https://www.countries-ofthe-world.com/all-countries.html Well, the developer could say “There’s a BIG colorful flag of the Bahamas on TOP OF EVERY page! Your just need to remember that every time it says Azerbaijan in the history there, it means the Bahamas.” What kind of software would that be? Add in another wee mnemonic: every era’s end comes…on New Year’s Eve. That’s just extra mental work for anyone trying to remember anything. My imagery for New Year’s Eve is pretty specific. And, having to call it up for every era… “Oh, look! The Renaissance ALSO ended on New Year’s Eve, in 1599!” “Ah, yes! But, so too did the Early Iron Age in Britain! Of course, in the year 601 BC because… that’s BC! Happy Iron Age New Year!” “Well! Don’t forget, the Moche Civilization in what is now modern-day Peru! They, too thrived…until New Year’s Eve - 699!” To ask students not to pay attention to every era ending on New Year’s Eve is…asking a lot. Further, is it TRUE that these ages all ended on New Year’s Eve the year before they are mostly learned to have ended? A SOLUTION: A HISTORY TEMPLATE Now, I may be wrong here, but I think most of this can be achieved via a custom coded template. To that end I’d like to suggest, as explained in this thread: A check box for offsetting any date by one year in either direction so eras can end and everywhere display as lasting for their correctly understood years. And: And, Commas in long dates - https://www.aeontimeline.com/forum/channel/#!/support/getting-started:commas-in-long-dates A scrub to include Wikipedia data via one click. - https://www.aeontimeline.com/forum/channel/#!/wish-list:import-characters-born-d The first, which has been asked about by other users: https://www.aeontimeline.com/forum/channel/#!/support/dates-and-calendars:commas-in-dates The second which got this response: "... would be greatly appreciated if we could expedite our work somehow. Thanks In advance." Custom Template, or any solution: I know I’d pay three times the cost of the software as it exists today to have these features. You could sell the template as a custom add-on. The features of Aeon are BEYOND everything else in the market today. However, even the fastest boat with a leak is unusable. Again, to quote: https://www.aeontimeline.com/users/creative-writers/ Aeon Timeline has tools and features to help you understand your characters, *avoid plot holes and inconsistencies*, and visualise your story in new ways. Sincerely, Flin